Ep 10: Roofing Considerations

House At Work Home Repair Clinic

In this episode, Jim and Peter discuss different types of roofing and considerations you should take for each.

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Jim Salmon:                      Hello everybody and welcome to the home repair capitol of the world. This is the houseatwork.com Home Repair Clinic Podcast. My name is Jim Salmon and you are …

Peter Schick :                    Peter Schick.

Jim Salmon:                      Good morning, or good afternoon, or good night.

Peter Schick :                    Good afternoon to you too Jim.

Jim Salmon:                      How are you?

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, good, good, good.

Jim Salmon:                      Today we’re gonna talk roofing, all things roofing. Everybody needs a roof if you live in a house.

Peter Schick :                    Yes you do.

Jim Salmon:                      There’s lots of different kinds, and we’ll go over the … maybe a little bit of how to hire a roofer, some of the things not to do, some of the things to do.

Peter Schick :                    Some common maintenance concerns as well that I know that you’ve definitely seen, and I’ve seen as well. Yeah, definitely the different types of roofs, too. Like what you would need, some of the considerations for that.

Jim Salmon:                      Part of what I do for a living is I’m a home inspector. You hire me to look in a house that you’re thinking of buying or whatever and write a report, whatever. But I also do a lot of workmanship investigation work. Unfortunately, roofing falls into that category a lot of times. So it’s important for the homeowners to be in control of the roof project, so you don’t wind up on the other end of something with an argument with your roofer and he’s already paid and all that. So we’ll get into that.

Peter Schick :                    Exactly. Now when you’ve had those workmanship investigations, what are some of the common things you’ve seen when it comes to roofs?

Jim Salmon:                      You mean problem wise?

Peter Schick :                    Yeah problem wise.

Jim Salmon:                      Yeah. Oh gosh there’s so many.

The instillation of shingles is pretty much foolproof if you follow a few little rules. But it’s amazing how many people seem to screw it all up.

Peter Schick :                    They just slap them on there.

Jim Salmon:                      High nailing. Every shingle has, okay, this is where you nail. If you high nail, the wind blows the tabs off.

Peter Schick :                    Yep, exactly. So it doesn’t actually go into a board is what you’re saying, when you nail it in.

Jim Salmon:                      Right, exactly.

Peter Schick :                    Okay I’ve seen that.

Jim Salmon:                      Transitions to other roofing. Like a flat porch roof then now transitions into a three in one tab or an architectural shingle and they had no idea how to do it and it leaks like a sieve.

Peter Schick :                    I see.

Jim Salmon:                      Where lower roofs transition into siding is a big thing. Say you have wood shingles on your house now. Your house is built in the 20s or the 1900s and you have cedar shingles. In our part of the world here in New York State you can’t go over that. The code calls for it a removal, a complete removal. So you’re taking out a half an inch of cedar shingles and it might have two or three layers of asphalt on there. So you’re taking out two inches of roofing and you’re going back with a quarter of an inch of roofing. So now there’s this big giant gap in the siding. Those types of things are all supposed to be dealt with.

Peter Schick :                    Now I know rules, we have rules here in terms of how many layers you can have on roof.

Jim Salmon:                      Right. You can have two, can’t have three, and you can’t go over wood shingles under any circumstances except one, and that’s certain types of metal roofing.

Peter Schick :                    Oh I see. Yeah cause I’ve heard of metal roofs going over asphalt shingles and you can also have them go over those kind of shingles as well.

Jim Salmon:                      Right.

Peter Schick :                    That’s interesting.

Jim Salmon:                      The absolute skunks in the insurance industry, in the insurance lobby got together and said, “Hey, wood shingles are like a tinder, they catch fire, they add to insurance claims.”

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      “So we want the state of New York to take that out of there, we want them all ripped out.” Well, okay.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, I mean, well okay, what are you gonna do? The work’s already done.

Jim Salmon:                      Exactly, exactly.

Now most of the people, unfortunately in my opinion, most people are doing replacements with architectural asphalt shingles, which are a fiberglass mat with some oil on it and then some glue and some roof aggregate in various colors. It’s actually, architectural shingles are a laminated shingle. There’s another little piece on top of it glued down. It makes it look like the wood shake look. You can get those that look like slate and a bunch of different –

Peter Schick :                    Yeah I’ve seen actual slate roofs before.

Jim Salmon:                      Those are beautiful.

Peter Schick :                    They are. I can’t even imagine trying to install those, how that even works or how that even begins.

Jim Salmon:                      Each piece of slate has two holes in it. Each hole has a piece of copper wire, or a copper nail rivet looking type thing that goes through that and into the roof deck.

Peter Schick :                    Oh really?

Jim Salmon:                      So now, some of these roofs I’m on, and a rule of thumb is you don’t walk a slate roof, but some of them I’m on from the turn of the century or the 20s or whatever and all these copper rivets are now all worn cause they’ve been moving around.

Peter Schick :                    Oh jeez.

Jim Salmon:                      When a piece of slate comes off of a roof, and it’s [crosstalk 00:04:45]

Peter Schick :                    That’s a falling hazard.

Jim Salmon:                      It’s like hatchet, you know?

Peter Schick :                    Yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      I’ve done some church work lately. We inspect churches too because the boards can’t ever get along cause they want everything to be free. So they hire somebody like me and I come in a help them sort it out. Well this one church had like a 9/12 pitch roof all slate, beautiful, beautiful, but it was right in the same plane as the sidewalk out front.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      So you get one of those things loose and it’s sliding down the roof –

Peter Schick :                    Yeah you have a big liability issue right there.

Jim Salmon:                      At a hundred miles an hour and it’s like, you know.

Anyway, slate is a thousand dollars a square right now. A square of roofing, and that’s how they measure roofing, is ten foot by ten foot. That’s one square roofing and that’s generally how it’s priced and whatever. So a thousand dollars just for a ten foot by ten foot section of slate.

Peter Schick :                    Oh wow.

Jim Salmon:                      Pretty cool.

Peter Schick :                    The thing with slate roofs too, I see that, and it makes me think that weighs so much more and that’s going to put so much more, I guess, it’s gonna take more of a toll on the structure itself just because of the weight that’s being put on that.

Jim Salmon:                      Pretty heavy.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      For years and years and years and years, one square of asphalt roofing weighed about 210-235 pounds, ten by ten section.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      Slate, 800.

Peter Schick :                    Oh wow, okay.

Jim Salmon:                      That’s a lot.

Peter Schick :                    That’s a significant difference there.

Jim Salmon:                      Sometimes on a slate roof I’ll find the rafters are a foot on center instead of 16. Or I’ll find that the roof decks beefed up to full three quarter tongue and groove or something like that rather than plywood or whatever.

Peter Schick :                    That would make a lot of sense to support that. Cause that’s a significant increase in weight right there.

Jim Salmon:                      One of the things that is making an inroad in the roofing business, especially in the Northeast is stone coated steel. Stone coated steel roof is a roof tile about the same size as an asphalt shingle, but it’s made out of an alloy, it’s called Galvalume. It’s a combination of galvanized steel and aluminum. They make them in various different patterns and looks: slate, flat shingle, shingle, rough hand split shingle type thing, but it’s all metal and it has roof aggregate on it. It has stones on it.

Peter Schick :                    Interesting.

Jim Salmon:                      The difference in that is that the stones don’t come off like they do on asphalt shingle. They don’t wind up in the gutter because there’s hardly ever any aggregate loss. Stone coated steel roofs are permanent. I mean, I don’t know, I’m 62, how old are you?

Peter Schick :                    I’m 34, so yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      Even in your life, you’d never do another roof if you did it in stone coated steel.

Peter Schick :                    Definitely, well even a metal roof itself, that’s a complete lifetime piece. You’re never gonna have to replace that. Whereas with a lot of other roofs, once you start getting towards fifteen years, you gotta start looking for a replacement or doing some significant maintenance on that.

Jim Salmon:                      Anybody can install an asphalt roof and sometimes anybody does, but metal requires a little bit more artistry. It’s a … career isn’t the right word. It’s a … I’m not sure what the word is I’m looking for.

Peter Schick :                    It takes a little more talent.

Jim Salmon:                      Yes, it’s an art. Cause good metal roof installers were siding guys maybe in the past that took aluminum trim on a break, cause there’s a lot of that with a metal roof. But it’s definitely an art and once you learn it, it’s a great living, I mean, if you’re in the roofing business.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah, I believe it. I guess my concern is, say if I am a metal roofer and obviously there’s a big difference between … My value propositions big, where it’s like, “Okay, I do a metal roof and it’s going to last you a lifetime.” That’s a huge value proposition. But there’s also a large increase in price in that as well.

Jim Salmon:                      There is and that’s the drawback. But, now plug in a couple of things into the scenario. Let’s just say for the sake of it, your asphalt roof is $10,000. You’ve got a 2,500 square foot house and you gotta little couple of valleys or whatever. It’s ten grand. So if you have two layers it’s a tear off, so you’ve gotta go in and tear it off and then replace the roof. With stone coated steel it’s gonna be 18 to 22,000, so it’s twice that.

Now, one scenario would be is, say a roof over at your house is going to be ten thousand, but if, okay I have one layer of wood shingles and another layer of asphalt, you can’t go over the wood shingles, so now it’s a tear off. Then there’s a gap between the boards there so we have to deck it with wafer board or plywood. So now we’re into the 14-5 range. So now that you don’t have to do that tear off of the wood shingles with metal, so now the stone coated steel at 18 is like, “Wow, I can have a permanent roof that I don’t have to do in twenty years.” You know? That’s just-

Peter Schick :                    That’s definitely a big consideration, it’s really, how long am I going to be living in this place is probably the biggest concern. If it’s like, “Hey I’m going to live here til I’m old and gray and I die.” Okay then makes sense. Might as well get a metal roof. Or it’s, “Okay, I don’t necessarily have the … If I have the money on hand to be able to do it, okay that’d be a consideration.” But, yeah. I think those are probably the two differences.

Well, I’d also say it’s also kind of a stylistic kind of thing, whether you actually like the metal roof. I think a lot of people do like the kind of traditional shingle look. If you’re in some neighborhoods, maybe it doesn’t look right to have a metal roof. I could see if I had a cabin or something it would make a lot of sense, you know most of those do have metal roofs and stuff.

Jim Salmon:                      Well, you know what, it’s all about the money.

Peter Schick :                    It is. It boils down to that at the end of the day as far as I’m concerned.

Jim Salmon:                      A lot of people are not staying in their houses as much as they were years and years ago. People are transient. They move and whatever or they move up.

Peter Schick :                    Yep. They upgrade to another house. Yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      But there is a good selling point when you sell your house. You have a stone coated steel cause nobody ever has to worry about a roof again.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      Which is a good thing. I think that investing in a metal roof, by the time you add up the 10,000 that you’re spending on the asphalt roof and you have to do it again in 20 years, so now it’s at 20,000. It’s not unusual to have people live in a house for twenty years.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah, that isn’t. Yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      So now you’re up to what stone coated steel would be.

Peter Schick :                    Exactly.

Jim Salmon:                      Especially if you’re like me. I’m 62 now and I’m doing all my roofs in stone coated steel, when I’m 85 I don’t want to mess with roofs.

Peter Schick :                    Exactly, you’re not at the age where you want to have to deal with that. You’re gonna be retired Jim Salmon doing his thing, you know?

Jim Salmon:                      That’s right.

So a few things to kind of be careful about when you’re hiring a roof project, the number one thing is stay in control of the money.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      Now, in our area there are many companies out there that don’t charge anything upfront.

Peter Schick :                    You shouldn’t. This circles back to our episode about finding a contractor.

Jim Salmon:                      Yeah.

Peter Schick :                    Where you’ll have these guys where it’s like, “Oh I need all the money up front.” No. That is big, huge. That is the red flag.

Jim Salmon:                      That’s right.

Peter Schick :                    If people get anything out of anything we say, they can ignore everything else we say, but if a contractor asks for all up front, go the other direction.

Jim Salmon:                      We have this thing going on this week down in Texas with hurricane Harvey.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      One of the things, my own personal policy that I learned a long time ago was, I never buy anything at all from what I call a storm chaser, somebody that comes to the door.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      Driveway sealer, roofing, painting, barn painters, I just don’t deal with that. If you don’t deal with somebody coming to the door, it’s a win for you because you’re never going to get in trouble. You have to go out and find your own contractor, get plenty of estimates on things you’re doing, be in control of the money and –

Peter Schick :                    Totally agree with that.

That’s actually, we had issues with individuals who were putting asphalt, or sealing driveways. That was one thing I’ve seen a lot or I’ve heard a lot around here. Individuals like, “Hey, we got some tar left, we’ll do it for this cut rate price and give me it all up front,” and then they never do it kind of deal.

Jim Salmon:                      I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody came up to me and said, “Oh I’ve got a bad roof, my roofer, I paid this guy and he put it on, it’s horrible, can you come over and look at it.” I get there and, “Oh wow, what happened here?” “Well, I hired a handyman to do a roofing job. Guy was pretty handy, said he’s done roofs before.” Okay, this is where the system broke down.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      Experience gets you two things, it gets you a professionally looking roof and it gets it done in timely fashion.

Peter Schick :                    It gets it done right the first time, too.

Jim Salmon:                      I wish I had another dollar for every time somebody says they’ve been working on this roof for four weeks.

Peter Schick :                    Four weeks.

Jim Salmon:                      Craziness.

Peter Schick :                    Four weeks.

Jim Salmon:                      It’s nuts.

Peter Schick :                    I can’t imagine what would take four weeks.

Jim Salmon:                      I was on a roof job, workmanship investigation last week and the back of the house, a big old gable roof, and the back one roofer in the roof crew, one guy started on the right hand side, another guys started on the left hand side and when they met in the middles they were weaving the shingles together. So it looks like the head of a dinosaur coming down the middle.

Peter Schick :                    Oh boy.

Jim Salmon:                      I mean like a ridge. It’s horrible.

Peter Schick :                    A ridge in the center. Oh no.

Jim Salmon:                      Just don’t hire somebody … I mean handymen are good and they can replace a lock here and there –

Peter Schick :                    I think a lot of homeowners, their main incentive for going the handyman route, it’s like you said, it’s all about the money. It’s like, “Oh I’m gonna do it for half the price.” We also talked about that correlation between a quality and price. There’s always that, “Hey you’re not gonna pay a lot but you’re gonna get …” If you don’t pay a lot, you’re not gonna get a lot of quality.

Jim Salmon:                      You’re a professional real estate person and you know the worst of the worst deals are where a family member is selling something else to a family member.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      The same thing goes with roofing.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      When it comes to installing a roof, having Uncle Joe do it at half-price or, “Oh my kid needs the work, can he do it?” and whatever. It’s always screwed up, it’s always a mess, and now you’re dealing with family member versus family member.

Peter Schick :                    Now you got all these emotions involved and everything else. No, I’ve heard that story plenty of times too. Plenty of times.

Jim Salmon:                      You know, there are some advertising gimmicks that go along with the roofing business sometimes. “We have this special thing that lifts the shingles up.” Or, “We do it this way.” Or whatever, I mean, “These shingles we use are the ones that are on the White House.”

So you have to be careful for the gimmick things, cause some of those larger companies, you end up paying a lot more than you need to just because the overhead, that fancy bucket thing they’re lifting the shingles up with costs 80 grand and now you have to get more money for it.

Peter Schick :                    One thing I have seen also is financing for a lot of roofing projects. I’ve heard about that as well and I guess to a certain extent that can make some sense, if you are short on cash, but in the long term, it’s probably going to cost you a lot more.

Jim Salmon:                      Lot more.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah. Cause they’re making their interest on that. I’ve seen that a bunch of times with some of the bigger roofers, honestly, I see with that, but I’m always a bit skeptical. I’d always look into the terms with that. It’s like, what kind of interest rate are you charging?

Jim Salmon:                      Yeah. Check that all out.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, cause if it’s like, only 20 dollars a month you’ve got to pay us for this brand new roof. How long am I going to be paying this off? Like 20 years? You know?

Jim Salmon:                      Some of the mistakes homeowners make when they’re hiring a roofer is not taking them up in the attic and letting them look around up there and saying, there’s no cracked rafters here.

Cause you know what? They pick up those bundles and they walk them down to the edge of the roof and they throw them down on the roof deck. Once in a while there’s a cracked rafter of a split out hunk of roof deck or whatever. So then it’s always a, well, pissing match between the homeowner and the roofer. “Oh that was there before.” You know, so if you take the roofer up there and say, “Okay look, no cracked rafters.” Also discuss with them about clean-up. You know, where does the –

Peter Schick :                    That definitely –

Jim Salmon:                      Clean-up every day or after the job’s over?

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, coordination of cleanup, but also if you’re tearing off, where are you gonna put that dumpster, throwing things down. If you’re going to be having your family and stuff walking around, these guys are going to have to be considerate of where they’re throwing all of these shingles and all of these boarded nails and everything else. Yeah, the clean-up piece with that. There’s gonna be nails and other things that they’re gonna have to … Just one of those things that has to be covered in the very beginning.

Jim Salmon:                      I think we might have talked about this before in another broadcast, but roofers are notoriously tough on gutters, fascias, siding, bushes, ground cover, plants and whatever. So the chronology of things should be, before you do siding projects, before you do gutter projects, you should always do the roof as close to first as you can. Actually, you do any chimney work first, then the roof, then anything down below.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, kind of work your way, start at the top, work your way down.

Jim Salmon:                      It’s kind of heartbreaking sometimes when you have a nice new gutter system and then when the roof replacement is over with it’s all scythed up and there’s holes in it. It looks like [crosstalk 00:18:08].

Peter Schick :                    It’s like getting your driveway sealed or getting it paved or something and that being the first things, it doesn’t make sense, that’s like one of those things that you do last. It’s the same thing with flooring, you don’t want to put this beautiful flooring in and now they have to tear down a bunch of walls and do all this other work and now you just caused all these other secondary and tertiary issues because you didn’t do the order of operations correctly.

Jim Salmon:                      Now I have it on good authority that coming in the future are roof shingles that have solar panels in them.

Peter Schick :                    I’ve already heard of that. That’s already here. Future is here Jim.

Jim Salmon:                      Yep. Future’s here.

You’re younger than I am so take it away. No I mean, I think that eventually there will be new houses built with solar panel roof shingles all connected into a central –

Peter Schick :                    Like battery hub.

Jim Salmon:                      System within the house, a battery hub or in our area they use smart meters and my solar panels go back int through the meter.

Peter Schick :                    I would even take it a step further. I would say not only the shingles, would those be solar powered, but even your windows. Where like the light going through helps power your house and the windows. That’s already something that I think already exists, I think it’s just a matter of getting the cost down. I think that’s how it is with those solar paneled shingles. It’s, okay it’s at the very beginning, it’s at the infancy of its existence.

Jim Salmon:                      Yeah, right now they’re 25 bucks a piece.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, a shingle. Now they have to kind of work down the price to where it’s like accessible not to just super rich people but everyday folks who can actually use that.

The other issue with that is actually integrating that now with your own house. Say if I wanted to have these solar powered shingles, I mean what I need to have a battery system. I know you, do you have any solar powered stuff? I mean –

Jim Salmon:                      I bought an 8kW solar powered system on a building that I have, on my play barn.

Peter Schick :                    Oh, okay.

Jim Salmon:                      Man cave extraordinaire. Mm, mm, mm. It generates about $950 worth of electricity a year. It’s not connected to a battery system, it’s not like that. It generates power and it feeds it back into the grid.

Peter Schick :                    Oh.

Jim Salmon:                      So I get credit for it.

Peter Schick :                    Okay your grid’s connected.

Jim Salmon:                      I get credit from the utility at cost, not at what the delivery and the retail price would be, but it is –

Peter Schick :                    Okay that kind of integration seems much, much more easier than say if it was an off grid situation where it’s like, okay I have my solar powered roof and now I have to store it in the batteries and everything else. Okay.

Jim Salmon:                      Almost anywhere in the country can be profitable for solar. Now, I know there’s a lot of politics on it right now cause it’s subsidized like crazy and mine was subsidized and whatever. Okay, so maybe eventually it will get to the point where it’s not quite that bad.

Germany has the largest percentage of solar power in the world.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      Their climate is worse than ours as far as clouds and rain and so forth. In this part of New York –

Peter Schick :                    They have it on almost every roof there.

Jim Salmon:                      Right, right.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      So it’s viable here, we just need to figure out how to make it as cost effective.

Peter Schick :                    I think it’s viable at scale. Yeah. Once you start getting scale it’s kind of a chicken or egg thing. It’s okay, well it becomes much more viable when everybody has it, but how do you get everybody to have it if it’s really expensive kind of deal.

Jim Salmon:                      I went over to, where was it, Ireland, last year. Went to this one place and there’s a guy up on a thatched roof and it was straw, and he’s taking it and he’s building this roof. I’m thinking to myself, “Wow, the three little pigs would love this one.”

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      Cause it … in the 80 mile an hour wind we had here in march in our part of the world here, there would be nothing left there.

Peter Schick :                    There’d be nothing. I’d be concerned –

Jim Salmon:                      There wouldn’t be one single straw.

Peter Schick :                    I’d be concerned if somebody was like having a fire or something, or somebody like flicked a cigarette and it accidentally got up there and now it’s like, “Aw geez.” Yeah, gone.

Jim Salmon:                      You know, a couple of things too about hiring roofers. We live in this world where the lawyers are coming out of the woodwork. I mean, you know, where’s that ambulance. I shouldn’t be like that. Shoot all lawyers except mine.  [crosstalk 00:22:28]

Peter Schick :                    You would say that, you would say that Jim.

Jim Salmon:                      So here’s the thing. People sue people for anything. Somebodies working on your house and he’s got a kid helper, right?

Peter Schick :                    Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Jim Salmon:                      And its not his own kind but he’s a kid helper and he’s up on the roof and he falls off and he breaks his leg. Or worse, right? If that person isn’t in the system, and in particular in New York State, there’s workman comp laws in roofing. I mean you pay through the nose to be a roofer you’ve got to be properly insured.

Peter Schick :                    The thing is with a lot of those roofers they don’t necessarily say they’re roofers a lot of the time because of that insurance, because the insurance premiums they have to pay.

Jim Salmon:                      That’s right, that’s absolutely right.

So he falls off and oftentimes the homeowners liable. “Oh my gosh the gutter was too loose, or the whatever, you made an unsafe environment, and now I want X.” There’s always a lawyer out there wanting to take that kind of stuff.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah, the injury law, yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      Making sure that whoever works on your house has a certificate of insurance and workman’s comp is just good practice. Now, because I’m inherently skeptical on everything, I don’t trust anybody, whatever, because that’s what I do for a living is figure these things out. I will always call the insurance company. Somebody can give you a certificate, which they got in 1993 and they just whited out the number, made the date, and put in another copy of it, and handed to the homeowner. I always call the insurance company. Now they’re not gonna tell you the specifics because that’s none of your business, but they will verify that yes, he has –

Peter Schick :                    If indeed they have that.

Jim Salmon:                      He has in place an active insurance. So it’s just worth doing. Just to stay out of trouble.

Peter Schick :                    I agree, I agree. I’ve heard all sorts of stories with that where a roofer may say they have insurance but it’s insurance for a landscaper, because landscaping insurance is very low, very low premium that has to get paid. Whereas with the roofers, it’s significantly higher.

Jim Salmon:                      Everything’s 20 feet down.

Peter Schick :                    Yep. That’s right. If you fall, you’re breaking something more than likely.

Jim Salmon:                      So you know, stay in complete control of that.

This year has been a wet year.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      I mean off the charts for us. So many roofing projects going on. I mean, the roofers are just blasted with work.

Peter Schick :                    They are. Actually, they’re super busy.

Jim Salmon:                      Because of these winds we’re having.

Peter Schick :                    They’re actually, I’m still hearing about guys who are still doing projects from that windstorm, and that windstorm was what? Five months ago?

Jim Salmon:                      Yeah.

Peter Schick :                    There’s still work being done with that. I still see tarps on top of some of the houses here.

Jim Salmon:                      That’s the key, right there. I was on a house the other day that had so much massive dry wall damage, water coming out of the light fixtures, cause the guy was doing a tear off, he got way ahead of himself, there wasn’t enough people there, the tarps weren’t readily available when the downpour came, and then next thing you know there’s all kinds of … You want to have that conversation up front, especially if they’re doing a tear off on your roof.

Peter Schick :                    Oh yeah.

Jim Salmon:                      You want to make sure that they have some tarps, they don’t have to run over to the big box and get tarps when it’s pouring rain.

Peter Schick :                    Go to Home Depot, get tarps, then do that. You want to try to be a proactive as you can with a that. That’s definitely something that’s foreseeable. It’s not like, “Oh jeez, you know, what am I going to do once the roof is torn off?” No, you gotta be able to have that plan in place. Gotta know what you’re doing with that.

Jim Salmon:                      When you do a roof tear off, you find where you didn’t get it done before. You find where the leaks were, you find where the carpenter ants got in. Oftentimes there’s roof deck plywood or even tongue and groove that’s all rotted and you can’t put a new roof on that.

Peter Schick :                    No you can’t, that’s gonna have to be replaced.

Jim Salmon:                      You have to pull that out of there and replace it.

Peter Schick :                    Yep.

Jim Salmon:                      So on most roofing written estimates, is how much per sheet of plywood if we have to replace that stuff. Now I was in a house, this lady called me she said, “I don’t know about this. They said they used 54 sheets of plywood and that’s at 50 bucks a sheet. That’s another 1000 dollars.”

Peter Schick :                    Wow. 50 sheets, wait? How big are these sheets?

Jim Salmon:                      Well they’re four foot by eight foot.

Peter Schick :                    Okay, that’s pretty big, that’s pretty big.

Jim Salmon:                      54 sheets. She said, “Can you come over and look.” So I climb up there and I’m in the attic with my little piece of chalk and I mark off all the new sheets cause you can see them.

Peter Schick :                    Yeah, you can look right at it.

Jim Salmon:                      19 sheets.

Peter Schick :                    Oh jeez.

Jim Salmon:                      19 sheets. So I said to the roofing contractor, “Alright, where do we come up with 54?” “Oh, I don’t know, that must have been a mistake.” Well yeah, that was a big mistake, 25 extra hundred dollars or whatever it is on top of that cause you’re putting in all –

Peter Schick :                    Yeah you’re paying, now this homeowner is paying for supplies that aren’t even being used on their house.

Jim Salmon:                      Absolutely. Right. That’s a lot of money.

Peter Schick :                    That is. That’s a lot of money.

Jim Salmon:                      So anyway, the bottom line is, stay in control of things, use your head. If that little devil pops up on your shoulder, move onto another roofer guys. Get plenty of estimates, don’t pay a lot of money down, and stay in control.

Peter Schick :                    Exactly. [crosstalk 00:27:26]

Jim Salmon:                      Have we exhausted this subject?

Peter Schick :                    I think we have.

Jim Salmon:                      Alright.

Peter Schick :                    I think we have.

Jim Salmon:                      Folks I’d like to take this opportunity, on behalf of Peter Schick and yours truly, Jim Salmon, thank you for joining us for this houseatwork.com Home Repair Clinic Podcast. We’ll see you right down the road for the next one. Stay tuned.

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